tv Worlds Apart With Oksana Boyko RT January 12, 2014 5:29pm-6:01pm EST
but it doesn't seem to. further your own cause that much i wonder why is that in your view first the kurdish questions in the middle east has been the victim of the lack of democracy lack of peaceful coexistence lack of the non acceptance of the others on the rise of the other so if you can because the kurds in the middle east were not arabs we are not turks we are not our cities we are a different national group and we have our rights in that area so as i said we are the largest nation in the world without a state and we are realistic we have been divided into four countries with the acceptance of the asking so for people and now we understand the realities of poor countries and each part of kurdistan within the countries that we are living in its own peculiarities so we don't want to copy paste what we have in iraqi kurdistan to the other part we do believe that this is the time for accepting the kurds as they are to live in a democratic situation that they can have a guarantee of their constitutional rights in their own country absolutely and i think this is the argument that the various kurdish political parties have been
making probably for decades but if you look at your most recent history it seems that any substantial change in their kurdish question occurred only at a time of major geo political upheavals if for example if we take iraq the autonomy that you have there would have been so strong and saw successful if it wasn't for the american invasion and american support in syria if. some of the concessions that both the assad government and the opposition promised to the current it's only because they they want to have them on their side so it seems that it's not so much about peaceful dialogue and negotiations with the authorities but rather any kind of change for you can confluent major political cataclysm don't agree with that kurdistan's autonomy has been strong because of the us invasion of kurdistan has been enjoying it is autonomy it is for the region since one thousand into an after the uprising but i feel you can have very argued the united states. a lot of
resources into strengthening the autonomy of kurdistan and having this region secure and safe and burgeoning into. space and again you know the states did a very important thing by removing saddam from power we can all is that without the us of the iraqis could have not removed saddam's from power but again the kurdistan region did either stability or security it has not been because of the u.s. presence but definitely removing saddam from power having a new political era in iraq and having a new system in iraq the kurds are trying to be part of. two more strands of kurdistan as regions and to have more resources but also kurdistan a lot of weight to the new iraq that we have after two thousand and three that you mentioned a lot of persecution that hear people say stay in iraq and many other countries and i think one reason possible reason for that is because many of those governments in
turkey in iraq under saddam hussein maybe even in syria always saw the currents as a sort of a charge on horse that could be used by the anime's for their own political gains i wonder if you believe that kurds are still being used as a bargaining chip in the larger middle east and politics. is all very you know curse of not being the trojan horse as you mentioned but kurds they were the victims of the. system that we had in those countries that we have been living in as i said in my earlier speech you know the kurdish issue is the issue of a nation that has its own language culture history background and that's and but has not been recognized by the respective countries so in this new political game give the disagree on anything they have agreed on limiting the kurdish riots in their own countries and that was the result of the cycles because agreements but that era is over. no longer be that weak point to be played with by this country's
uncursed. an actor in the region that they have their own agenda but i wonder if this active brawl that you just mentioned is a result of their a difficult political circumstances that those respective governments find themselves in because turkey has a lot of security issues syria as well has a lot of security issues so there may be an immediate political advantage to keeping the kurds a baby or keeping the implicated the kurds specially the iraqi kurdistan as an example of the. enhanced and democracy in the middle east by having you lections by . the rights of the women and the rights of voting for all the components of the society by having the couter for all the other minorities that you have in the inside kurdistan regions by having the peaceful handover of the of the power and also by the feel of the press all of that hell for having kurdistan as a beacon of democracy in the middle east and the problem is of course that the
democratic prospects around the middle east. when i heard that when i was in syria for example in even in turkey you don't know whether democracy will continue to flourish. through that if kurds will be allowed to have the chance they're part of the pose that they're part of the solution they're not part of the problem because if we have a better understanding if you respect each other if we accept each other and if we don't deny the rights of the existence of each other then we have a better understanding to go forward now one thing we can certainly agree on is that the iraqi kurdistan is the closest kurds got to self-determination by the prospect of or this modal of autonomy. is very unlikely in other countries with big kurdish populations whether we are talking about turkey even syria or iran for example do you see that model of autonomy as more of an exception or a rule. we don't have a formula of coffee place with we have an iraqi kurdistan. in other parts of
kurdistan because every country has its own peculiarities the kurdish question for example the kurdish question in turkey the kurdish question in pseudo the kurdish question in iran and the system the democracy that we have in turkey and already in iran or in syria and the way that the government is looking at the kurdish question is the ok let's look at some specific examples first of all turkey the country with the largest kurdish population of where twenty percent of citizens are of kurdish origin and for decades they couldn't speak their language freely they couldn't practice their girls here and probably now most recently there are the long government to reverse that policy of cultural assimilation but i wonder if you think that those matters that he has taken so far would be enough to settle the kurdish question in turkey because he is not willing to discuss not only the issue of autonomy here he is reluctant to discuss even broader participation of kurds in when a simple government something that he would expect in any democratic government with
such a large minority kurds as you mentioned it's the largest part of kurdistan the kurds in the kurdish that we call it the northern kurdistan which is part of turkey this kurdish people they have been denied of their existence they have been denied all of their studying in their mother tongue the language they have been denied even they have they have been recognised as the moment in turks as you know in the last century but now with prime minister erdogan did we do consider this is a courageous step or do what they did in terms of the kurdish question first india iraq in two thousand and five when prime minister erdogan said the era of the during the kurds is over for us this is was like a starting point concerning the recent measurements and the packages that the government and we do believe that it has not included all the curves expected. even the kurds in turkey but we do believe also that these are first steps in the right direction so we welcome the fact is that prime minister look at us because if you compare measuring from where the kurds were and how the government into it was
dealing with the kurds from where we are no we do believe this is a positive start and we have to support dispose of the stop because having the cease fire in the bloodshed the military solution the security perspective by the respective governments it's a full perspective i think it's a rather contentious issue the era of military struggle is over especially if you look at what is happening in syria but before we go there i would like to ask i mean i'm sure the military situation in turkey for the kurdish question in turkey well speaking about militarist struggle in turkey if you look at the polls turkish polls that we will see that more and more turks actually welcome giving kurdish people you know their social cultural. maybe not so much a lack to have arrived but there is one sticking point very important sticking points point about between the turks and the kurds in turkey and that is that attitudes on the fate of the law and the majority are off turks believe that he
is prison conditions and he's been held in solitary confinement for another number of years already should be improved currents on the other hand the overwhelming majority of them believe that this absolutely has to be a change how crucial do you think the issue will be to the success of this ongoing settlement process first of all you know the kurdish question in turkey is not only the question of the if you will on the kurdish question has been there even before the establishment of the new job and so the government in turkey should have a strategy for the kurdish question even if it is separate from the having a strategy on how to deal with. but definitely. they are an important part in finding any kind of a permanent solution for the actors. an inside inside you so in that regard we do believe. a very crucial role in taming in the k.k.k. to be a positive partner for the peace process and we do believe that all partners turkish
government that. goes whoever wants to have peace in turkey whatever is needed whatever is useful it must be used in order to achieve this permanent peace to end the bloodshed and the two years of the mothers of the turkish on the kurdish people but we that's what inverts regard we do believe the. imprisoned condition must be improved and also the level of having dialogue with him to raise the negotiation if it can be achieved something through why not let's and a very very quickly before we go to break one country that has a very large kurdish population that we very very rarely hear about iran this is the fact that they have i think the world's second largest british community and what's interesting about this country is that the kurds in iran seem to be content regardless of who is in power ever under the democratic government they were pretty happy under the shah rule they were all. under the fear of crowded government that
their rights and their freedoms seemed to be larger than the in some other countries i wonder what do you think is iran doing ride to make kurds saw because the issue of kurdish nationalism or separatism never gained any traction in iraq the kurds in iran it's a different case i don't agree with that argument to say that because we have these through the you know under the rule of or the. islamic republic of iran because the kurds have been denied of having educations for example in their mother tongue the kurdish is not allowed to be educated in iran yes the kurdish is not allowed to be as. far as i know there. are freely practice and there are external just but it's not allowed in parliament it's not allowed in the schools it's all in persian the studies in the education so that lose their better represented in the electoral system and this is the you know the kurds in iran also they have. a different
ethnic group or as a nation in iran they have may not recognize in their job graphical areas so that's why because in iran also they have similar cases of the denial it's true that only one provinces in iran it's called kurdistan which is the senate is the capital of it but again the same the same paradigm of the problem is there as well it's the lack of recognizing the kurds as a different nation group because kurds in iraq kurds in turkey and iraq we have not asked for the changing of the borders the kurds and they're also not asking for the change of the borders of iran and they can act positively if there will be more willing this from the iranian side from the iranian government recognize that there's that mr heller really have to take a very short break now but when we come back syria accounts for less than ten percent of the global kurdish population but doesn't it hold the keys to deciding kurdish question once and for all that's coming up in a few moments on worlds apart.
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welcome back to all the parts of a discussing the kurdish issue of a human how rami one of the high ranking members of the kurdistan democratic party mr howard ramey let's turn our attention to syria now where i visited some kurdish communities in syria last year. and there was a lot of excitement there because for the first time in many days those people could. speak their language freely they could all plan kurdish schools they were in charge of their many civil affairs they had their own security and it seemed that you know for the first time they really had this independence and south rule that they coveted for so many years and yet one of their recent news that some of the
political factions in syria declared autonomy when they declared that autonomy in their region of the how to if your own party and just on region president mustard barzani was very very critical of that if kurds in iraq would have a day autonomy or south role why not the kurds in syria present us with barzani on the kurdistan region has helped the kurds in syria because we do believe that the this is an important issue for us the question is not that we are not supporting the cursed will have their own rights whether it's a federalism whether it's a total us or whatever they agree but we do support that when we have a political agreement a political solution that is based that is recognized by the other partners in the questions and also it will be recognized by the international community we don't believe that any unilateral move has any constitutional background or legal background or demographic agreements background is going to serve. also if you look
at the unilateral decision that he wanted he has made it does not have the support of the other important partners within the kurds inside syria but isn't it the case that getting international community to agree on anything on syria has been. impossible and i don't mean the international community for example we are in the process of going to geneva two for example and we do believe that the kurdish delegation must be one delegation and it must a clear vision of what the kurds in studio one what the kurds in syria one must have it must be through this dialogue with the syrian government for example the few i do the question for the viewer it is that this unilateral action does they have any agreement with the syrian regime that it has anybody and we survive with any changes in the development in syria actually it was i believe that i mean as far as i know i did accuse the kurdish democratic union party of siding with the assad regime something that's really using it it's apparent you know they want to leave they denied it at least but at the same time mr herzog lesson for you if they
denied for example on the ground on the reality i want you to do itself made a program on how the airport is being protected by the syrian army and whether you id it it's not a sign. of protecting your own community protecting him from. within your country doesn't mean siding with the assad regime there protecting deadline land one of the syrian regime is not allowing the other also armed groups also to i have a question for you mr despite criticizing them for siding with the assad regime and you can argue whether it is legitimate or not but mr brazilian himself had no qualms about associating himself with brigette tape aired on a leader who openly supports the militarized syrian opposition so it seems that currents various political parties within the larger kurdish community i've really losing what was that strength for a long time and that is. there now. longer above the fray as they always used to be
their eyes are no longer fixed on that ultimate cause they are part of all those various alliances that we if you allow me just to answer that question in a bit details you know the prison bars on a strategem courtesan reason struck easy for the kurds in syria we don't intervene we don't dictate what they should want under should not want our advice for the cd and has based on already experience in iraqi kurdistan that the syrian kurds they should not side with any with any whether it's the free syrian army whether it's the tools of the of the regional countries or whether it is with the cedar regime the syrian kurds most that have their own agenda and that agenda that's where president barzani invited all the seed and kurds. if you go back on july eleventh two thousand and twelve present barzani supervise and the green which is called the builds agreement between pew id and the other student goes to establish the supreme court of the kurds to leave the kurdish question inside syria our strategy is that prison if the kurds in syria are going to decide to find
a regime this decision must be united be taken by all the kurds if they're going to negotiate with the regime apart from the syrian opposition this decision also again and the delegation must include by the seat of the cedars are going to join the national opposition in syria as a group also this decision must be united retaken by all the kurdish groups but we have tried our best to unify the kurds and to avoid the kurdish kurdish fighting because it is for the interest of the kurdish question around me i take your point your are calling for kurdish you need to absolutely have to do but the question is of course that the conditions for kurds in all those different countries are there is very different and again mr president your bulls accused some of the syrian occurrence of fighting what is not a kurdish fire this is essentially what you just sat and that was in reference to. some of the clashes between kurdish militia and al qaeda forces earlier this year but what does it actually me and i mean if you if you have those terror groups
operating in your area if they threaten you are not in there any children they were not in their area. at least i mean kurds in syria still again i'm sure is a kurd suffered from the terrorism alone we recently suffered from an interview we suffered after a car that they came from syria we are against terrorism but that was what is the against terrorism we us he why the that they should allow the other kurdish parties to join them to kill other to find terrorism it's not a question that we are not again we are not with fighting that there is and we will fight terrorism wherever they are but we do believe that this decision the kurdish decision to fight terrorism to find the others must be. unitedly to have the others also to be in that fighting but the p y b is not allowing any other kurdish parties to be active in the syrian kurdistan whether in fighting the terrorists or in fighting with the regime or in fighting with the other goal is the opposition essentially what you're arguing for is that the kurds should ask make identity
above that national identity let me ask you a personal question you are a current first or an iraq it for i am a current course of course but i am of course first you know it's a crime to be a current first if not a current fear choice but you do not know that from all the. been bombarded you know i still remember the smell of the chemical weapons so what iraqi identity brought to me iraq and in the brought to me the killings of people mass graves four thousand five hundred villages were destroyed but after two thousand and three we have a new iraq i can say that yes i am a new iraqi kurds but this new iraq must be based on the constitution that we have these stands of os vs than ours kurds versus than iraqis is very perilous and i don't think there it has a big chance to lead to any sort of free consultation. if you look at the history kurds after two thousand and three there is the main rival to be among the sunnis
and the shiites you know that it's it's it's a very new in fact but have you heard in any political move that the kurds signed with the sunni against the she had or sided with the sheets again as the sunnis know the kurds has been always trying to bring in both sides and not to side with the any side it will have been very easy for us to side with one side to win over the other side but we don't do that because that's not our problem we won this new iraq after saddam to be in iraq for all of us not iraq for the sudanese because the era of ruling iraq like saddam did and the other sunni partners did one man show one party one ethnic group or one part of the it's over here and there are usually just one occurred. this position no matter what the kurds are now the allowed to have different sorts of opinions regardless on on where they leave and what kind of circumstances where they meet and whether or not they they're entitled to fighting al qaeda and their own backyard then are they going to run because this iraq is not i mean you claim that you cannot prove it and are in the fist any longer in iraq
but yet you claim that you have to have an absolute unity when it comes to the kurdish question even though kurdish realities in turkey in iraq there is a serious really very different you know when i say the kurdish unity i am not claiming that kurdistan is unity because every country has its own peculiarities when i say the kurds in syria for example we have more than thirty political parties every political party is putting their party agenda above the kurdish agenda than the kurds are not going to achieve anything in syria it seems that all that political struggle undermined what used to be the strength of the kurdish politics of kurdish people you know the ability to come together to keep neutrality and to keep their eyes on the on the on their main goal and some experts are now suggesting that you know this kurdish cause as we as we know it for many decades is nothing more than just a very convenient political slogan do you think there is such
a thing as kurdish issue at all hasn't it outlived itself is there is still the dream for kurds in all those if we have different countries you know if you ask me whether the kurds want to have an independent state definitely every single kurds as the internationally recognized as part of the south that the relation of all the parts that we have internationally for the rights of the nation but again we as the kurds in iraq you kurdistan in sudan kurdistan in turkish those iranian kurdistan a strategy of having upon kurdistan from all of this for is not on the agenda but again the borders of the middle east are changing so rapidly if the borders are not going to be changed the internal borders of these borders and the meaning of the borders are going to be changed. but if you ask me how the kurds want to achieve their self determination rights our strategy is not of struggle it must be through peace it must be through democracy it must be through political recognition because let me be frank with you any force division is not going to survive for or for good
since you mentioned the upheaval that the middle east was going through and one of the most pressing issues is of course syria these days and the population of current in syria is now dot significant in around two or maybe three million kurds live in syria but syria is of course a very important geopolitical juncture for all those surrounding countries with very large kurdish populations how crucial do you thing is the outcome of struggle for syria for the overall kurdish cause it's very very important the syrian developments we look at it very very closely because it's going to affect the kurdish crucial question it's going to affect the sunni she had relations in the middle east it's going to affect the security issues in iraq and it's going to affect the political situation in iraq in turkey in everywhere for the entire of the middle east very very quickly you already mentioned kurds in
syria have no reason to like the assad regime and many of them had difficulties getting citizenship power you know speaking their language subsequently no love lost there but do you think kurds will benefit if the syrian opposition particularly the most radical factions of it will only take. you know the core in iraq in syria rather we don't believe because to be honest with you number of the syrian regime or the opposition whether it's rather cool or moderate they don't have a clear vision for what they have a future syria they all want change then to talk later the kurds are accustomed with this game we're not going again to be the victims of this game there must be a clear vision whether it's over there by the opposition mr however i mean this is all we have time for and. and there we have to leave it here but i appreciate your time and leisure if you like this show please join us again same place same time here on worlds apart.
cia are attacking people in countries with which we are not at war to me is simply. you know already argue it's a violation of international law for its assassination i do not support assassination by my government. gridlock. to build a new. found anything mission to teach me. this is why you should care
only. al qaeda militants are controlling major cities in western iraq a show of strength not seen since their battles with u.s. forces a decade ago we look at who these insurgents are and how they became so strong. in syria al-qaeda linked rebels and other opposition groups are engulfed in bloody infighting the forthcoming peace talks are under threat from the growing divisions among those aiming to topple assad. approval ratings for you leaders dip into an all time low as a handful of bloc members face economic hardships tough times are being met with people in the countries adopting new currencies. these colorful. money.